We use our monetary resources alone. It seems as if the preacher thinks it is within his ability to persuade people to accept Christ or to get people to witness or whatever. John was Gods true prophet and the forerunner of the Messiah Jesus Christ, but he was not a part of the dispensation of the institution of the local church. Most of the Anabaptists successors became the Mennonites, Amish and Quakers. No new testament christian anywhere in scripture, that I know of, is compelled to give a tithe. 10 Myths About the King James Version, 68. Lynne, Read all (mor ethan on epost under name Lynne). You CANNOT be loving either if you are refusing to render unto the Lord that which is his, and this includes tithing. However, in the midst of all this apostasy, which was the founded the Roman Catholic church, there were groups of Christians who were never a part of the Christianization of the Roman Empire. Typically they take the following verse an stretched it like a balloon: Oopsin 1st paragraphh in one sentence I actually meant something more like this: the Law is fullfillednow we can truly do good works that are pleasing to the Lord for the sins are washed away with & following the Law to make us right, which it never could but only point to our need for redemption, is fullfilled. I attend an Independent Baptist church and Ill answer your questions Catholic Influences on the Modern Translations, 66. I am having a hard time figuring you out. Will you join us? Well originally Abraham initiated giving a tenth of his to the priest in the Melchizdeak order which was a type of Christ I believe. No tithing is not mandated, no good work is..just as no good work can save us. 53, Cornhill, 1813, Fundamental Baptist CD ROM Library, 1701 Harns Rd. I have also spend a good bit of down time ruminating over my beliefs of my church, and the fallacies of their theology. There is every value in appealing only to present adherence to the New Testament as ones sole authority for faith and practice. God does not lead His children by rules. After working for a few hours in our home, the Dish tech stopped working and looked at me asking, Am I correct in believing this is a Christian home I am working in? I said yes. I began my spiritual walk with Jesus studying the New Testament, but my journey through the Old Testament only reinforced my belief in the New and showed me more about God. [CDATA[ If someone wanted to Tithe down to a tenth of all they owned & sell or give value of itIm sure they could. @ Bob & Greg, I cant say how much I agree with your posts. Tithing preceded the OT Law. The New Independent Fundamental Baptist (New IFB) Movement Tithing I believe is liberty. The church government of many Independent Baptist churches are to have pastors and deacons as officers of the local church. Mark 7:7, Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 7.) It is the clergymen who are affiliated. Independent, Fundamental, King James, Mission Minded Our Service Times Are: Sunday Morning Worship -. No Law we are obligated to in the sense they have any weight of sins being dealt withfor Jesus done away with sins. Pagan temples became the meetinghouses for Christians. Rome, then hired unregenerate pagan priests as Christian ministers. Church Directory Sub-pages. We are not under law, but under grace. PASTOR PAUL DYCK. Baptist also believe the Bible interprets itself, and that Christ is the only head of the church. Under grace we can give as much as we like. 4. You place too much value on modern denominational history. But we need YOUR help to make this project successful! I chose to focus on the doctrine of separation as typically understood by Independent Baptists (I was one). Well last night the first speaker, spoke on Hell, he said not many preach on Hell anymore (yea, right!) (I Corinthians 15:1-4) Further, if a person is truly saved and strictly follows the principles of the New Testament he will in a true sense be a Baptist whether he uses the name or not. If you have any more questions or comments (as long as they are not rude), please feel free to email me again. I dont see a thing wrong with it; He didnt make us to be wooden. I think a biblical case can be made for modesty, for both men and women, beyond that, you would be hard-pressed to find anything else. He then began to ask me questions and we had a good conversation centered around God from there on. Tithing was never supposed to be for the maintenance of the house of God. 77. The magistrates found their order was becoming unpopular and impossible to enforce so the church in the future was left unmolested. A side note, my sons group In Search Of Reason has been selected to play for CreationFest this year. Some years ago when I was attempting to find another church for my family to attend so as to escape a spiritually abusive IFB, I found myself at a Church of Christ that had split from the large COC in town. // ]]> Exposing the Dangerous Teachings of the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Denomination, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception 2009-2020, Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception, 42. It was almost like watching 12yr olds trying to run a corporation. 2) tell you what kind of music to listen to Greek Orthodox Churches; Unity Churches; Lutheran Churches; Eastern Orthodox Churches; The Independent Baptist church has a congregational form of government with each member having the right of the vote and all the affairs of the churches are conducted by the local congregation following the guidelines of the New Testament. I understand what you are saying about these kind of messages with strong emotional appeals. p.s. No, we are to teach and preach the Word. 13:17, Acts 20:28, Eph. I think I already addressed that point. He records that five hundred others who were identified as Anabaptists were also killed in England during this period. Ive become weary of those labels, and the Baptist one carries alot of baggage now. I love your statement above about The Grace economy I think Im going to have to borrow it. The Puritans were in control of the colonies and in fact had set up a theocracy in which the Puritan church governed both secular and religious affairs. Anyway at least once a year we set up a tent and have an old-fashioned revival. The Bible and only the Bible reveals to men how to have their sins forgiven and have everlasting life and heaven. Likewiseif a church is teaching its wrong to do sothey are also in error. Im all about modest clothing, but I cant tell you how many sermons I have sat through where the man of God railed against women wearing slacks. Puritans and Baptists alike, to escape persecution, migrated to the New World. (man of God). Any idiot can do that. God leads us as we depend upon the Holy Spirit and keep His Word. We believe that Jesus is the only one who can reconcile us to God. My responsibility is to preach the Word. The Puritans were dissenters from the Church of England. But it is for these very reasons that I and millions of other Americans cant understand it. However, tithing has nothing to do with your Salvation Again, its not about how we dress, but about who we are. A true New Testament church bases its faith, practice and authority solely in the Word of God. King James, Fundamental, Independent Baptist Resources. Those who put in the effort will be greatly rewarded while those who neglect it do harm to their own souls. They tried to establish that according to history, Baptists have an unbroken line of churches since Christ. This is the largest christian gathering in the U.S. attracting more than 100,000 last year. But rather than ordaining ourselves mini-Holy Spirits we need to be faithful in our teaching, we need to teach repentance, and we need to leave the conviction of sin, righteousness and judgement to Almighty God. I dont know awhole lot about the Episcopal church, but Im sure there are some wonderful folks there. (II Peter 1:20) Baptist believe you do not have to be a Baptist in order to be saved and have eternal life, but a person must believe the Gospel as revealed in the New Testament. The mighty IFB has spoken It looks like I'm wasting my time. We dress however we want, however, my Pastor chides me in good nature, because I frequently wear black clothing, but he is not being critical. He was heavily fined and then imprisoned. You stated that all churches tithe a certain way and used that fact to justify a way of thinking. He returned to Salem where he was summoned before the court in Boston because of his outspoken beliefs and was banished from the colony. The idea the bread and wine (grape juice) in the Lords Supper becoming the physical body of Christ when taken is a Roman Catholic teaching that Protestants only changed slightly. Men meeting the Biblical qualification of deacons (servants) (1 Tim. Mark 7:7, Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. How would the IFB Churches differ from other churches that teach first century, new testament doctrine? In 1645, he formed a Baptist church in London. http://www.wvec.com/news/local/INSIDE-A-NAKED-CHURCH-85062392.html. The not so fine folks at Westboro Baptist are a bunch of lunatic fringe haters that act in contrast to the love of Christ they espouse to embrace. I usually look fwd to these. Drinkers go to the next town to buy their drinks. He said from the pulpit, No one ever asked me if I was a Christian while out in public! Im thinking thats not a good thing. Hear personal testimonies and watch missionary slideshows with RealAudio narratives. So you made assumptions based on very little. He is light years away from the legalism of the last church, but holds tightly to the KJV (too tightly I think) but is not fanatical like the last pastor. The first Baptist church on American soil was a direct result of the Puritan persecution of true New Testament believers. God said He would preserve His church and that task was not left in the hands of fallible men or groups. This lasted only one Sunday however, and the following Sunday the doors were opened and services held in defiance of the order. Examples: Billy Graham, Promise Keepers. Yes, we do preach not to be unequally yolked with non-belivers and I agree with that. My mother is divorced, as are a few others in the congregation. Steve must have been on vacation or something. How can you not see that? That means every church service must provide a time for people to come to Christ. Every activity, every thing we do, needs to uplift King Jesus, and it must allow for winning precious people to our Lord. Bob So true, the subject that I simply couldnt justify (there were several) with my old fundy churchs teaching with scripture, was tithing. I assume you are referring to the errant position that many Pastors, Deacons, or Elders have taken placing themselves between God & Man. Please see the Tithing Deception and Tithe 10% or Get Punished articles for more information. Personally, I try to for the most part give as I think God is pleased incl supporting Evangelism Ministrys like Compassion (that not only care for childrens physical need but also spirtual vs. the formerly known as Christian Childrens Fund now I believe under the name Child Aide, mainly becaus eCompassion confesses to be Christian & I believe to support church endeavors. Would you say Calvary Chapels are unbiblical and not fundamental? Furthermore I believe it involved religion. Everyone in the colony was automatically a member of the State church and were taxed to support it. Our Mission Is to help you find a bible believing church, an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, that seeks to serve and honor the Lord Jesus Christ. I attend an IFB church. Each year members profess 16 articles of faith that include the original five points of fundamentalismthe literal truth of divinely inspired scripture, the Virgin Birth and deity of Christ, substitutionary atonement through Christ, the Resurrection, and the Second Coming of Christ. We have the personal presence of the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us, why would we want to follow rules that were intended for people living in the power of the flesh? It is believed that God meant what he said in Revelation 22:18, the Scriptures were not to added to or taken from. Encyclopaedia Britannica's editors oversee subject areas in which they have extensive knowledge, whether from years of experience gained by working on that content or via study for an advanced degree. The New Testament teaches the absolute autonomy of each local church who is to govern itself as the Word of God instructs free from outside authority and control. Visited Calvarly Chapel her in Rosedale areahas tith online but what they view is unclear. They many have been called by various names, before assemblies used the name Baptist. This was the best onemembers in our church raise hands, say amen, clap after special music (GASP! I have done my share of research on what defines a cult and unless Im missing something, we dont qualify as a such. Fortunately my current pastor, though still somewhat legalistic, has studied and understands that tithing was for Jews under the old covenant/law, Im just hoping he keeps studying about some other issues, but you know all of us are learning and growing (hopefully). Fundamental Baptist use the name in its strictest sense as meaning holding to the fundamentals of the New Testament teachings without error. I find it difficult sometimes to keep Gods sovereignty and my responsibility in balance. IFB churches are not the problem. For another example, our neighbor is a lost man. I think Lynne has been fed a large dose of legalism, and just cant seem to escape it. By 1644, these congregations grew to seven churches. The only power above the pastor is God, and Gods silence seems to imply endorsement and collaboration. One young lady began attending a non IFB Baptist church. Ive told bits and pieces of my story here over the last couple of years, so dont want to travel back through all of that, suffice it to say I left a very legalistic IFB, and now find myself in a tiny, new work that a friend started about 4 years ago (about 20 on Sunday) he calls it a Baptist church, I spoke to him about taking the baptist title out of it, but he wouldnt have it. So far newere at IFB church (if is is refered to as one by a IFB site think) & has not as far as I know been told must. Firstly, they take a denominational name: Baptist. I dont believe it is a Law that one has to tithe. Greg, They do not find support in the Bible for such a requirement. This charter was the very cornerstone of American religious freedom! A couple of things to consider here, first he was speaking to Pharisees, and they were in fact still under law. He was talking about ceremonial law not moral law I think you are confusing those two. Its beginning charter reads as follows: We whose names are hereunder written, being desirous to inhabit ourselves in active and passive obedience to all such orders or agencies as shall be made for the public good of the body in an orderly way, by the major consent of the present inhabitants, masters of families, incorporated together into the same, only in civil things.. In other areas Baptist churches were being formed about this same time. Fundamentalist Baptist Church But this issue is just another one that the IFBs get wrong, worrying themselves over externals as opposed to the internals. Still others rail about the same sin constantly, possibly out of their own guilt. That godly Deacon, so righteous on the outside, may have deep dark unrepentant sins no one know about. Im trying to figure out if it was worse of me for not using scripture to answer your question, which btw is not a question that required scripture, or yanking a handful of verses completely out of context as you did. 1 Peter 3:16, Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. KJB. Lack of pastoral accountability is not the problem. You have accused Greg of, Throughout all your conjecture you based none of you opinions on scripture., yet you have essentially done the same thing. One man Hanserd Knolleys, is an example of dissenter of the Church of England who had to flee to America. In 1678, shortly after the church had erected a new building, the Puritan controlled government nailed its doors shut and forbade anyone under penalty of the law to enter or worship there. Hope that last wasnt too much personal info. Baptist continued to grow in numbers through the period of the Great Awakening and up to the time of the Revolutionary War. Some of his former congregation in Salem joined him and they set up a colony. Knolleys joined other dissenters left England. I watched a man die last week. You may admire their piety, but a true believer in the New Testament would have a great problem with many of their doctrines and especially why they persecuted the Baptists and drove them from their colonies. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life. Churches in USA; Churches in Canada; Churches in Australia; Churches in the UK; Churches Worldwide . Actually what should have been first was the erroneous teaching that water baptism has anything at all to do with ones salvation, it does not! Select worship style. Our Pastor teaches that Baptism does not save us and is no a requirement of salvation. Not just the New Testament. 13:8-10). And only imagination could describe what his mind and soul was experiencing. When and Where Was the First Recorded Baptist Church in History, The Beginnings of the Baptists in America, https://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/hyles_effect.php, http://www.wvec.com/news/local/INSIDE-A-NAKED-CHURCH-85062392.html, You Might Be an Independent Fundamental Baptist if, Broad Stroking and Sweeping Generalizations Fallacy, Harold Camping Fails to Predict the Rapture, The 10 Commandments of the Independent Fundamental Baptists, 92-Year-Old Woman Kicked Out of Church for not Tithing. I am a former fundamental baptist member, I would like to request any assistance on clarification regarding the contradictions of doctrine of Paul and Jesus. It is my conviction that it is not possible to trace an unbroken line of Baptist churches from Christ until today. The one caution I would give is to allow God to speak to you through the scriptures, that is the most critical. -How do you determine whether or not a church teaches or practices false doctrine? Secessionism is the gross error of Catholicism. Now I am in full agreement with you that we should support our places of worship with our monetary gifts, but a mandatory tithe for new testament christians? 3:8-13) are appointed from the local congregation and approved by the majority vote. Throughout all your conjecture you based none of you opinions on scripture. What's Wrong with the Independent Fundamental Baptists - Truth and Song He showed me a . Even the enemies of the Baptists openly recognize their zeal for the Word of God. This church had no ties to anyone or any other church, yet this was a Baptist church as much as any Baptist church ever was. All systems of hierarchy set up by man over the authority of the local church has lead to doctrinal errors and corruption without exception and God has not party with them. We do good works (they are only truly good b/c of the bllod of Jesus that justifys us & are perfect through His shed blood). Secondly, they believe in a clergy/laity distinction by ordaining so-called Pastors. This is not found in scripture. I believe that the King James Version is the inspired, preserved Word of God for the English speaking people I think that you should go kill your children. Shortly after the Church of England fell from grace when the English monarch was overthrown and the Presbyterians became the favored church of the state. I would prefer just wearing casual clothes like I do just about every time. (My family moved alot when I was a child, and Ive attended 7 different IFB churches in 4 different statesnot all of them are same, but my current one for the last 10 years is great), I had a long response here, but I received and error. Arkansas - Fundamental.org His resources are free from this sight. I feel silly because some of the things I stood up for on this site are the same things that made me leave. Its the phraseology itself that one calls into question as being logical or illogical. Particular Baptist had their beginnings around 1616, when some dissenters left the Church of England and were lead by the Rev. Find an Independent Baptist Church Near You The Gospel is to be preached throughout the world by believers empowered by the Holy Spirit as Acts 1:8 plainly states. The form contains many questions about doctrine and philosophy of ministry. All others miss-use the name. I humbly asked a question. Pastors tiptoe around specific sins so not to offend. I liken this to attending a Bible study without your Bible. Whether these groups of believers called themselves Baptists or not, if they were doctrinally pure, following the New Testament for their faith and practice they were New Testament churches and thus they can be called Baptistic. Our pastor has NEVER once insinuated that the church ought to obey him. A preacher told me once we were not to judge, but that we were to be fruit inspectors. Good job Greg!in reference to your reply to Rachel above. Questions/comments: Pastor Brewer's email: Wprophet@aol.com. As far as I can tell, we are not cultic in any way and just like any other denomination we have our doctrinal differences. It is not historically correct to identify Baptists as Catholic protestors who left the Roman church. There were however, many Baptists who loved the Word of God and held true to it and refused to abandon teaching the New Testament. So the the issue is that there has to be a Biblical standard for dress. The KJV is a wonderful translation and very valid for its time, and you, like many others love it for its beautiful shakesperean english. It was horrible. In fact, no church on earth can make that claim. By 1626, the churches had grown from one, to five churches and by 1644 there were forty congregations. That shows your lack of emotional maturity. The influx of these falsely converted pagans is one reason Roman Catholicism came to have so many idolatrous and pagan beliefs. I appreciate your stand for the cause of Christ, and remember always to rely on the blessed Word of God to lead and guide you, there will be times perhaps, when someone you really look up to is promoting ideas that are not biblical and yet they try to use the bible to convince you of their veracity. Independent Fundamental Churches of America - Britannica Thanks and may God bless. Grace Independent Chapel Size: Medium church 126 Airport Rd Shamokin, PA. Loving Fellowship Baptist Church . Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Deception - Exposing the @greg A logical fallacy stands alone whether in or out of context. KJV Bibles are the best translations because they do not take out the blood of Jesus from scripture as the other versions along with other things. You will find, to the left, a tags cloud as well as a category drop down menu. John was beheaded by Herod (Matt. They called themselves Baptists because that was the best name they could choose to describe what they believed and the name identified them a Bible believing people. (1 Tim. They wanted to bring reform to the Church of England. Both are true and one doesnt cancel out the other. What does this have to do with our discussion? I also believe that hanging around with non-Christians is detrimental to ones faith as I have done this. There was a fine of 2000 pounds of tobacco for failure to have ones infant children baptized.